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exposure to distressing thoughts - discuss Nov. Ask the expert question

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exposure to distressing thoughts - discuss Nov. Ask the expert question

for 14 år siden 0 +0 / -0 221

Dizzy,

In the psychological community there are different beliefs about core beliefs, and it has resulted in different types of therapies. So a therapist will address core beliefs depeding on the type of therapy that they practice.

Childhood is a time when many of our core beliefs are formed. As adults we may be able to identify when or why these core beliefs were formed, and if we can, it can be helpful. If we can't, we can still challenge them and change them. The way each person decides to treat their anxiety is very personal, and there are many roads to recovery. It is up to the individual to decide which path they would like to take during their healing.

Helena, Health Educator

for 14 år siden 0 +0 / -0 118

Tina

The view of my core belief I expressed before came from a so-called expert in the field my therapist. He told me I no uncertain terms that core belief come from childhood when as you say you cannot express yourself at the time to get what you need. I notice a lot of talk about right and wrong in what to do to address panic attack. I know people that go through 18 sessions with a CBT and come out with no attacks and maybe a few in the remainder of their life. So attacking core beliefs is not always necessary to get rid of panic attack for everyone. To say that everyone has to expose themselves to their core beliefs to get better is a core belief of what need to be done to get better. If you thought all you needed to do was to address your relationship problem to get rid of a panic attacks then this is a core belief and it should work. Davit, do not get me wrong I believe that I do have to but not all people do. Just like medication different type’s work for different people.

What would you say if you were not a child but an adult unable to express his need because he does not know what they were could a negative core belief come from that. In addition, I have had anxiety all your life, could not having the anxiety cause some of the core beliefs the longer you let it go untreated. For example in your case about asking someone out and, you thought you were unlovable could the thought that you were unlovable come from trait anxiety all the time tainting every experience? I have had this discussion before and been told rejection is a part of life but if you are anxious all the time are you not likely to taint this rejection in a negative way. Therefore, the trait anxiety causes your negative core belief.

What if you know things happened in your child hood but could not remember them happening I am not talking about abuse. Could this be a problem area because I know that I developed an anxiety towards reading when in school but I cannot remember developing it?

I have expressed the thought that too much searching in your past may be counterproductive an educator said you do not always have to know why to change it. Case in fact as a toddler I used to bang my head against everything I am sure I can find an article that says banging your head is normal. Or I can read into my life that as far as I can remember I had anxiety, so was I trying to express my frustration when I was a child because I could not express myself or was I just a normal child banking his head for no particular reason.

If you were to ask me, I would say I could not remember why I did it but I can look for negative core beliefs, look back, and say I must have had a problem even then. Further evidence for this belief is I was told that I cried all the time. I am no expert but can this not be what is called colic. I just looked up Wikipedia about colic babies and it says there is no identifiable reason for it that medical science can tell use. It leaves clues behind about what it does to a family and how the family or mother might mistreat the baby from being distressed all the time. Another piece of information is that my father told me he saw my mother dragging my brother by the arm because he would not do what she wanted. Since I was home alone as a baby without my father being there is it possible that she did something wrong. I doubt abuse but I know there probably was no parental attempt to calming the baby. If I am right I cannot remember so how can I challenge this thought that I have deduced from hindsight. One last statement I always felt as if I did not have my mother approval or love.

Therefore, if this is the case to I tie to go back to when I was a baby and try to find a core belief. I have been reading a book on nuro-plasticity and it says that even thought you might not remember now you still have the memories even as I toddler. The author gives an example of how one of his patients lost his mother when he was young and he need up regressing into a child like state when he had an epiphany that he felt the loss as a baby but not as an adult.

Finally just how far do we carry this core belief thing, because as one person said I might think I am going to have a bad day once in a blue moon a negative thought but if I was otherwise mental and physical all right then every negative thought cannot be related to a core belief.

Dizzy

for 14 år siden 0 +0 / -0 6252

Tiana

Here is where we might disagree. Triggers in themselves are not a problem, I think they are the pathways to the core beliefs and the core beliefs do the damage because things that trigger an attack in me, (claustrophobic thoughts, not actions) go directly to my core beliefs looking for an action and now are met by a choice of negative and positive beliefs. They do not stay with the negative before the positive quashes them (rejects) if they even get to the negative. I believe this is "self talk" only for the most part it is automatic without thought. Like having a curtain fall with not true wrote on it stopping the trigger. (thought, sight, etc.) It happens so fast I seldom have time to think up anything positive but once in a while when I am tired the thought does get through and this is where I have to reject it manually, but I have so many positive beliefs to choose from it never gets past the anxiety stage. Medication side effects is the only thing that can give me a panic attack but they are rare and mild and go with the withdrawal of the offending medication.

Davit.

for 14 år siden 0 +0 / -0 653

Hi Davit,

Again, I think we are mostly on the same page with these ideas! You certainly are right about triggers, and I totally agree that self-talk cannot be just a mantra. It has to be focused on, and the person has to be open to accepting it as truth, at least initially. And this is based on my personal experience, FYI

Somebody else join in this excellent discussion!!

Tiana, Health Educator

for 14 år siden 0 +0 / -0 6252

Tiana,

No of course you didn't come off as that. My point is that, and this is my personal experience, that you can not remove a negative core belief, you can only bury it with a positive one. ( or more ) Such as saying 300 times I am worthy or it is wrong. But it is still there if you want to look for it. And something as simple as a phone call can sent you back to it. But if you truly believe in yourself you will also open the positive belief you have used to bury it and it will be gone. This is Shari's dragons. The negative core beliefs are the dragons and "believing" the positive is the chain it takes to tie them up where they can do no harm. This is how I believe you have to deal with negative core beliefs. Not try to forget them, sorry but that is impossible to do. But burying them under so much positive that you don't reach for the negative. This may seem like forgetting them but it isn't and a trauma in the future can send you back looking for that negative belief. My point is that if you have to pass through enough positive thought to get to it you just night not. And over time it will seem like you have forgot. I don't think so, I think it just is not accessible. But if you don't strongly enough believe in the positive thought then all it is, is a mantra to be used as a distraction, you really haven't buried it.

So if you have a core belief that causes you to believe the negative beliefs then that is the one that has to be dealt with first. That is where self esteem comes in, if you do not believe in yourself, how can you believe anything you tell yourself.

This leads to another problem. How can you do exposure if you do not have enough faith in yourself? You will either sabotage each attempt or get something negative out of it.

It is like trying to find the starting point of a circle. Some times you need a therapist to point out where to start. Or in this case the program.

I believe though that coping skills are necessary before any attempt at this is made. And if coping skills and relaxation techniques aren't working the medication has to be added Because if the core beliefs are not dealt with you will never get past coping. We do not want to be able to cope with this life, we want to build a better one.

You know this is an ongoing battle, because there are always going to be things that point us in the direction of those negative core beliefs. In my case it seems I end up bringing something positive up unconsciously before I can go there.

Another thing I believe is that anyone who has had multiple panic attacks can never forget that you at one time had them making them too easy to access. Like an alcoholic who can never have a drink again. We have the potential to go back into that state we left under the right conditions. The difference is we will have the skills to make it very temporary or only a distant memory.

Comments or opinions on this very important subject would be appreciated. Does anyone have a different way of dealing with negative core beliefs. This is what works for me, what works for you.

Here for you.

Davit

for 14 år siden 0 +0 / -0 653

Hi Davit,

I hope I didn't come across as suggesting that one shouldn't try to deal with core beliefs. It would appear that some of our ideas overlap. I would argue however that the tape/selt-talk in our heads has to become positive before we believe it to be true. Did not the negative self-talk do that as well? To use my example again, if I start saying 300 times a day, every day, to myself "I am worthy of love", then I might start to believe it because it will be replacing "I am a loser". This is an example of CBT- the proof doesn't need to be there to change the thinking. Hope this makes sense!

Tiana, Health Educator

for 14 år siden 0 +0 / -0 6252

Tiana

I have noticed that one of the most common core beliefs we carry and I see it a lot here is that we are not supposed to act or believe out side a set pattern. It shows up as, we are not allowed to be weak, we are not allowed to cry, we are not allowed to let any one see it. And worst of all we are not allowed to have our own thought patterns. These are all usually core beliefs we built from childhood, but can also be built from living with some one dominant with these ideals. The trauma can set them up pretty solid. Because we don't want to believe them but have to they become invisible to us. They are still there and still dictating (I like that word) our actions. They could be the source of anger and sleeplessness because we know they are there but can not or will not find them. They are the root of all our others. Dig them up and burn them, and if you need a therapist or a friend to point them out, do it. They may not be so invisible to others. They may even be why some people seem cold towards us or seem not to understand. Core beliefs are very solid that is why they are cores and not the temporary ones we have every day. Temporary beliefs such as "I'm going to have a bad day" because you are scared go away as soon as you prove them not to be true. But having a bad day because you have a core belief that says you will does not, it usually just adds to the belief. It can be made to go away but it takes more work. You have to challenge all the reasons for the core belief and prove them false. And believe. Saying that is false and not believing it doesn't work.

This is a deep subject. A necessary one. But one that can certainly be dealt with.

Here for you.

Davit

for 14 år siden 0 +0 / -0 653

Hi All,

Good discussion here. True that feelings are not facts, nor are beliefs necessarily. Cutting off the supply lines is a great analogy!

Just wanted to add my two cents about core beliefs. I think they are the beliefs we have about ourselves that we may not even realize we have. For example, let's say you are dating and dating and can't seem to find someone to love, or someone you like doesn't return your affection. You might call yourself a loser, or think you have the worst luck ever, or figure you will be single forever. However, if you dig really deep underneath, you may feel you are not worthy of being loved, and the negative self-talk and experiences can re-affirm that idea without you realizing it. That belief can be hidden way at the centre of your being, hence the word 'core'. They are ideas that we keep locked up inside 'cause they are usually too painful to face, and we may not be able to understand why we have developed them. I think they often can develop when we are young so can't express ourselves or don't understand why our needs are not being met. (I'm purposely being vague because this is such a huge topic!) This is where CBT comes into play- you re-train yourself in your thinking patterns, and if you can face your core beliefs, you might be able to get at the reason they exist, therefore taking away their power.

Wow, pretty deep stuff for a Saturday morning!!

Tiana, Health Educator

for 14 år siden 0 +0 / -0 1665

Hello everyone: Davit, excellent explanation. I like the "cutting off the supply lines" the enemy dies. Got it. Terrific.

Sunny

for 14 år siden 0 +0 / -0 6252

Dizzy.

Believing that core beliefs are only from our childhood and influence our future life is in my books too Freudian. Some of your beliefs from before the age of seven are very strong and if not changed will influence your life, but it is a fact you can change them. You can also build them anytime and at any age. To qualify they have to be consistent and an influence.

What is a core belief? A hockey game is not a core belief. But If you get hit by a puck and believe that if you go to a hockey game you will get hit by a puck, that is a core belief.

Believing a cup of coffee is enough for breakfast is a core belief, because it dictates your choice. Having ham and eggs may or may not change that belief. It may just build another. Or if it makes you sick it may reinforce the thought. and if it does reinforce the core belief then you will not be able to have ham and eggs. The thought alone may make you sick.

Core beliefs are not all negative, but the negative ones are destructive. Looking forward to something, because every time you do it something beautiful happens is still a core belief but a positive one. Looking forward to it but thinking this time it will not be nice is a negative one and a recently built one but one all the same. It too can be changed.

You can build core beliefs any time but mostly we build them on one that is already there. Be it negative or positive. Believing you can get well is a core belief, if you really believe it. It is easier to build it on some accomplishment than just building it on nothing.

Believing you are going to panic every day at a certain time will become a core belief if it happens enough. Taking medication can break the cycle and allow you to build a positive belief. Stopping the medication before it is well established allows the previous belief to surface again. This is where exposure comes in. Journalling! instead of medication to block the panic attack you bury the negative thought by writing it down and recording it as a negative and hence building a positive on it so that when you reach for it you find a positive instead of the usual negative. See this becomes a core belief, a recent one and a positive one.

It is a war of attrition. How many positive core beliefs do you have against the negative ones. And like any battle if you can cut the supply lines the enemy shrivels and dies. Look for the supply lines. A number of negative core beliefs may be feeding off one primary one. Cut that one out and the rest shrivel and die.

In the case of agoraphobia a lot of little phobias are feeding off it. Building confidence and learning how to get control back will kill the agoraphobia and all the feeders die.

If this seems complicated let me know. I'll try to explain better.

Here for you,

Davit.

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exposure to distressing thoughts - discuss Nov. Ask the expert question