Marianne - MARIANNE -- OH MY GOD -- MY DAD IS THE SAME EXACT WAY AS YOUR MOM!!!!!!!! -- In fact the last time I visited him he also did not know what I did at my job and said to me "I thought you were a typist!" Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh -- and I can't believe I'm reading that your mom said the same thing. No wonder we have problems. Also my Dad has a low opinion of women and speaks negatively about and right in front of everyone else -- it's sickening isn't it!

There is an excellent book on perfectionism called "When Perfect Isn't Good Enough" by Martin Antony and Richard Swinson

Hear hear! I totally agree about this message board helping more than any therapist! I wonder if this is another approval thing, though. As soon as there is someone else out there who's going through the same thing as me I feel like it's kind of ok. It feels like it's not my fault that I've got these problems, it's more something that's happening to me, like a broken leg, that I can't be blamed for. It's similar to when I get someone else to check my work, then it's not my fault if there is a mistake. How immature is that?? You're lucky about your mum. I haven't been talking to mine since May, she really got me down one time too many and I needed a break. All she ever did was either go completely OTT about stupid things like how ambitious I am and how hard working (I'm neither, else I wouldn't have been in the same ****py underpaid job for the past eight years...) or undermine everything that's really important to me (my boyfriend, my woman friends, my independence. Women's equality, for God's sake! She thinks women are so much more stupid then men!). Last time she stayed with us she didn't even know what line of work I'm in (IT Support, she thought I was a typist) or what religion I am. How dare she tell me my life and my relationships are rubbish if she hasn't got the first idea about me! One evening she was going on about how evil Jews are and that all Russians stink, while my Jewish boyfriend of Russian descend was sitting at the table with us. Please!! Anyway, you can tell I've been in therapy for a while... I feel it's time to give her a ring sometime soon though, Xmas is coming and I'm not really angry anymore. But I'm glad I had these six months to draw a line. She doesn't have panic attacks but she is mildly claustrophobic, and she is desperate to fit in with her peers and if at all possible outdo them. You should hear them show off! She'd never open the door if she wasn't perfectly dressed and made up and the apartment cleaned from top to bottom. I'm sure I have inherited some of this, but I'm trying hard to get it out of my system. Sorry about the rant. Marianne P.S.: That's another thing, I should stop apologising all the time!

Oh my God, lists...Well I have so many of them. I have a 3 page list of everything that needs to be fixed in the house. Every little scratch in the wall every little thing that's not done. My b/f looks at it and says what do you mean fix the heater in the girls room? Well, the little tin pieces are bent and the cover doesn't hang on it just right. So he looks at me as if I'm nuts. As for aproval...I went through 4 1/2 years of college and every paper I wrote had to be read by someone else first. I would call a friend long distance to read it over the phone if I had nobody else. But see, you can't criticize it either, cause if you do then I'll be all upset. Oh you want to help me write the paper? What are you crazy? You can't do as good of a job as I do! A couple of weeks ago my b/f's mom criticized me about the way I take care of the kids. She said they seem to take a nap too often. He didn't tell me about it because he thought it was stupid and he didn't want me to get upset. Well she told someone else the same thing and I found out and I blew up. The woman has never liked me and I know she's never going to approve of me. So why am I so worried about pleasing her? Here is the trick though. Only my mom can understand me! So I was raised this way. She did the same thing, and yes she has panic attacks also. She's much better in the past couple of years but she self medicates when she needs it. I think she got better because I screwed up. I didn't follow the plan. So it took her 10 years but she adjusted and now she's fine. When she comes over she still follows the babies around with a wash cloth and she makes sure their naps are totally coordinated, but she's more realistic then she was with my first child. And she doesn't believe in therapists. The good news is, I didn't make my bed the last two days. And I even left my b/f's clothes on the floor by the bed! Oh it's hard and I cleaned the whole house twice over because of it. But guess what? Nobody went up in my bedroom in those days. And my b/f didn't even notice that I didn't do it. And the world didn't end. I don't know how much longer I can hold out. Last night I almost made the bed before I climbed in it cause it felt weird. But I didn't! So let me tell you something. A therapist is not going to

I'd love to try it, but God does it feel difficult! Just let the mess wash over me... sounds as hard as 'just let the panic wash over me'. Actually, last year I had several sessions with a CBT therapist and one thing we did was stop making lists. I was having a really stressfull time with lots of stuff that needed coordinating, and I made loads of lists to keep my head clear. But then the lists kind of took over. I made lists about lists and couldn't sleep at night because I needed to recheck the lists in my head, and always had a notepad beside me. Anyway, so I go to the therapist and tell her the lists drive me mad. And she says well, try not to make a single list for a few weeks. That'll be £75 please! Easy money, being a CBT therapist, isn't it? But not being allowed to make lists was definitely a kind of relief. I remember going to the market without a shopping list for the first time and I felt really scared but also exhilarated! In the worst case I'd forget to buy bananas, but so what? I can always get them somewhere else, plus you can live without bananas for a few days. The funny thing is, I was fully aware that I should stop making lists, I really didn't need the therapist to tell me, but somehow if some 'authority' tells me this is what I should do I do it. Like I don't really trust myself. This is really very weird because I normally trust myself a lot more than other people. It doesn't make sense at all. On the one hand I'm extremely independent and freak out if someone tries to tie me down or tell me what to do, I need to check everything myself and be in control of things, but on the other hand I need people's approval to convince myself I'm ok. Like if I'm so independent, why do I need the therapist's order before I can let go of my lists? If I'm so independent why is it so important that people don't find out my house is in a mess? At work, if I send out a message that goes to the whole company I always get someone else to check it for me, although privately I think my spelling is better than theirs. It's as if once I've got someone else's approval I can let go, it's no longer my responsability and I can forget about it. Does this sound familiar to anyone? How does it tie in with panic, I wonder? Marianne

Holy cow - I can't believe I'm reading this -- all of you have described the way I am (perfectionist) to a tee! Maybe being this way does cause anxiety attacks! Gees -- I never thought of that. I like the suggestion to perhaps not make our beds for a week or something like that. I wonder if that kind of therapy would help? When you think about it -- all the people that you know that are NOT like us (meaning they don't have to have everything in order all the time) -- those people don't suffer from panic attacks do they? Well it seems that way anyway.

Hang in there! I know the driving thing must be tough. I'm 42 and I first had panic attacks in my early twenties on and off through my early 30s. They came back again in the past two months and it has been really scary. I started therapy immediately and I am also taking zoloft. I am working on going back to the places where I had the attacks in the past couple of months. It's tough but I do think the medicine is helping.

Wow, lots of messages today on the board ! It's great to hear from folks who are going through the same thing as me. Finally, I can talk about my " panic feelings" and someone outthere understands me ! I have two books to suggest 1- Anxiety, Phobias and Panic - a step by Step Program for Regaining Control of your Life by Reneau Z.Peurifoy. I'am still reading it but it's a bit like the panic program . It helps to find ways to cope ...if possible without medications. You guys probably already know this book ! Many psychologists suggest reading it. The other book is "Feel the Fear and do it Anyway" by Susan Jeffers. I read it many year ago and then I didn't have theses attacks but I remember then after reading it...I felt like I could do pretty much anything even if I felt fear. I'am going to read it again to see how it helps this time around. No financial gain by suggesting these books ![font=Comic Sans MS]Text[/font] :)

Hi, I don't think, in my opinion, therapy is an answer for everyone. Sometimes medication will help. I, quite frankly, am tired of therapists trying to find out "the real reason" I do not want to drive. One suggested I did not want the freedom of driving. I want a solution not a discussion of my past which even cognitive therapist have done to some extent. One therapist thought it was the OCD disorder..call it what you want, the solution is hard to find for me. Maybe my anger will help. The therapist said she has never come across a patient so angry with herself and the fear of driving. Michele

Hi, I have had the experience of changing my mind frquently because of this illness. It is the fear that stops me. I make a decision, I know what I want and then the fear or panic starts and family members think, there she goes again, she cannot make up her mind. Yet, I clearly know what I want and it is hard, for them to understand, though they try. I start to think, I cannot drive, or as the therapist said to me, you can drive but do you want to? I have a beautiful house that is being built and I may have to back out of the contract or sell it without moving in. The reason is that one day I feel okay driving and then for no reason a week later or even the next day, I do not want to drive. Driving takes concentration that exhausts me and I do not see how I can do this on a long term basis. Especially when the area I want to move to , you have to drive to get to work, etc. Yet I welcome the lifestyle change of the area except for the driving. I am sad and frustrated with myself. Relatives have said I am getting cold feet over buying a first home. It is so far from that...I am very comfortable with my choice having analyzed and looked at many homes are and areas (overachiever, over- analyzed???) I feel so lousy about driving, especially at night. I do better in the day and in warm weather. Thanks for listening. Michele